Posts Tagged ‘science’

Atheist and Theist (17)


Image via Wikipedia

Theist: It says in the Bible in Job 26:7 `He stretches out the north over the empty place, and hangs the earth on nothing` I have peace knowing this is true. But want to hear something outrageous? An atheist said once that Christians spread fear around with their talk of God and hell. Add to that the rapture which will leave atheists here to suffer through a seven-year tribulation where they most likely will be tortured and killed by the antichrist.

Atheist: That is horrible to say those things. None of it is true. As for the earth; it is suspended in space held in place by gravity. Science explains it all. Science has replaced superstition and the world is better for it. I spread not fear but truth.

Theist: That is a matter of opinion my friend…But I will tell you what is spreading fear around. Atheists say there is no God. That all just happened by chance. One big bang and poof here we are! The very notion that the earth which does hang on nothing as it says in the Bible, is simply in place by chance is not a nice thing to spread around. That any time by chance the earth could suddenly fall into the deep blackness of never-ending space. Now that is spreading fear.

Atheist: But that won’t happen. Physics proves that what comes up comes down. And the sun has a  strong gravitational force to keep it in place even if it is very far from the sun.

Theist: Yes physics which came from the mind of God.  But according to evolution there is a chance that gravity fails. This is the basic teaching of evolution; chance. A fairy tale. Father Time, his wife Mother Earth, and their unpredictable flighty son Chance. Not to mention an insane outer space. Remember your spiral galaxies being swallowed by dark holes by chance? Your..

Atheist: Now you’re being facetious I think. Yes it could fail. Anything is possible. Nothing is guaranteed. And yes we are evolving at this moment. Things are constantly changing for the better. The things taking place in outer space are random. So yes we can suddenly drop into the nothingness of space. But I’m sure we are safe. We won’t fall.

Theist: I am sure also but only because of the information in Hebrews 1:3 speaking of Jesus Christ; `Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:` There is no chance the earth will  suddenly take a drop like a plane suddenly losing altitude. Jesus is holding it all in place by the word of his power. By the way the second law of thermodynamics is the law of entropy. So you are wrong and science proves it. Things tend to decay and randomness not to order and improvement.

Atheist: Old stuff which has been disproved. Evolution is happening and we call it science. Darwin the genius the savior of mankind who was brilliant enough to know the difference between a fairy tale and reality. Science is all we need.

Theist: Science? You mean science like smelly hairy beasts stomping through meadows crushing flowers as they go? So what did the earth look like when the hairy creatures were here? Or before that? I don’t believe any of this is true that we evolved or that the earth is gazillions of years old for no apparent reason. Why is it that reason and logic are the enemies of evolution?

Atheist: Logic and reason are the foundation of it. I read in New Scientist that the Earth’s landmasses in the late Precambrian probably weren’t pleasant, but at least they were green. A new analysis of limestone rocks laid down between 1 billion and 500 million years ago suggests that there was extensive plant life on land much earlier than previously thought. The plants were only tiny mosses and liverworts, but they would have had a profound effect on the planet. They turned the hitherto barren Earth green, created the first soils and pumped oxygen into the atmosphere, laying the foundations for animals to evolve in the Cambrian explosion that started 542 million years ago.

Theist: Previously thought huh? Always a thought a guess an assumption. Let’s just call it what it is theories. So how do you prove this? Saying this was going on 542 million years ago is absurd. I really don’t think evolutionists have any idea how long a million years is, much less 542 million.

Atheist: I read also in New Scientist that it was already known from genetic evidence that mosses and liverworts probably evolved around 700 million years ago, but up till now there was little sign that they had colonized land to any great extent. The assumption was that terrestrial life consisted of patchy bacterial mats and “algal scum” until the mid-Ordovician, 475 million years ago, when land was first invaded by modern-looking vascular plants.

Theist: The assumption? Genetic evidence? Like what? It is always that isn’t it? An assumption. Or a wild guess. It is ludicrous to think anyone, I don’t care how many degrees he has can determine something is 700 millions old.

Atheist: You are simply in denial. You want to believe in God. But you cannot believe in God and science at the same time. Fundies live in la la land and science is one thing they do not understand.

Theist: Actually science was my best subject in school.

To be continued…


My Guest Mr Atheist (4)

Wet Season storm at night, Darwin

Image via Wikipedia

CS-Theist: So how does time create? You almost make it sound like evolutionists have a time machine they put everything in so it can change into whatever fits their theory.

Atheist: Well..after so much time people adapt to their environment, you know they change to fit in. Time does work like a change-machine. Given enough time things change as different forms of life adapt to whatever situation it finds itself in.  Darwin discovered this amazing fact.  Billions of years ago there were no real humans, there were only savage crawling grunting beasts, but after a billion years had passed, the savage beast began to adapt to his surroundings. After a few billion more years passed he learned how to make fire to cook the fish he caught for example, he learned by trial and error. He finally learned how to walk on two feet instead of four.This process took billions of years to occur. Billions of years and we know this by dating rocks and stuff.

CS-Theist: Dating rocks? Like granite for example? But the ring halos testify differently to what you claim. ? Anyway….Adapt you say? Time worked this magic? So according to your argument a person doesn’t need to be fitted for eyeglasses he simply will adapt to his inability to see if given a billion years to adapt. Why are people still having vision problems? decaying teeth? Dying bodies? The Bible answers all this and so far you have not offered anything to this debate except that time did it all. How many beasts were there? Apparently millions had to have died under such harsh conditions, yet according to you out of these beasts some had enough intelligence to survive? What determined this? Where did this intelligence originate? Why did it appear? There has to be a reason. I myself do not believe things just happened. I wish you had more information. Could you explain why humans cannot adapt to darkness and pain and loneliness? Also why couldn’t he adapt to hunger instead of hunger becoming starvation than killing him? Why can’t he adapt to freezing weather such as is found in Antarctica? Why do some things kill him while other things help him? Why must he die from no food instead of adapting to eating no food? Why must he have warmth and most of all why must he need love? What caused this?

Atheist: No one knows it just happened that way as time passed. Time worked its magic and things just came into being. Time decided everything. I think some can adapt to loneliness and pain and darkness...given enough time. But we finally found a way to make light as in when we made candles and lamps so we could see in the darkness. We learned to accept things we could not change such as learning we must eat or we will die of starvation. It was all  trial and error. Darwin was the world’s greatest genius he discovered that we came from animals. But given billions of years we can change into humans. We have billions of fossils to prove this. Why they manufactured the Pilt-Down man to deceive the world is strange when there are literally billions and billions of fossils out there proving that man changed from a wild hairy grunting animals into a civilized modern-day man who eats with a fork.

CS- Theist: No one knows it just happened that way is not an answer. The Bible tells us why this is so. Evolution cannot. But you say it just happened that way. Can you imagine an accused person telling a judge he didn’t know why he murdered so and so it just happened that way?  Your answers lack scientific data.  So far you have not explained the who what when where why and how of anything. All your answers are time did it and it just happened that way. Being an empiricist I need solid and scientific data so I can understand. Time machines just are not my idea of an explanation why the human race is as it is. So you think it is great that we so-called evolved from beasts?

Atheist: Well not exactly what I meant. But this explains why there is savageness in all of us.  We are basically wild animals. Everyone is suspect of doing wrong. Well wrong as we call it now but billions of years ago they didn’t see it as wrong when they killed other humans to survive. They engaged in cannibalism, sexual perversions, and all sorts of uncivilized things just to survive. IE: If they stood at a river full of crocodiles and one of them was grabbed by a crocodile that dragged it in and ate it, his companions would just laugh instead of feeling sorrow and pain. They saw it as all animals do as simply life twists and turns.

CS-Theist: Oh? Sounds like you’re describing the ancient Canaanites whom God ordered the Israelites to kill without mercy because they were engaging in these exact things; cannibalism and sexual perversion. They were behaving as does the beasts. You are describing the very people God suffered not to live.  Yet you accuse God of being a bad God for killing these beasts. You are also describing modern-day man. He kills and he does it in various ways such as in wars,  or some get up close and personal, by strangling, shooting, beating other humans to death than lie about it. We don’t kill these killers now but arrest and lock them up for being out-of-order. Much of what you describe  sounds to me like Old Testament methods God employed to rid the world of those disobedient to the laws of God. Yet atheists continually criticize God for doing this, yet this is what you describe. Of course there were no billions of years involved but a few thousand. The very idea that the earth is billions of years old is absurd. Your so-called dating has been thoroughly refuted as in the halo rings found in granite which study proves evolution did not could not have happen.

Atheist: Everything I told you is scientific data. Evolution is a science. Darwin changed the world for the better because of his discovery that we all came from some lower form of life. We came from the same life form that cockroaches did. Anything that has life in it  is related to everything else with life in it. Man is nothing but a beast of the field and forest. He is an ape in many ways.

CS-Theist: And you don’t see the Bible as the answer to our beastly situation?

Atheist: No I don’t The Bible is nothing more than an outdated book written by ignorant goat-herders.

CS-Theist: A serious charge against what most of the world believes; that the Bible is the word of the living God. Explain your position and please provide proof. This time trick just doesn’t work for me. Science is logic, it is reason, it is precise indisputable data, and so far you have said nothing except that time created a universe for no apparent reason, with no purpose no goal it just simply happened as time passed. I just cannot accept that as science.

To be continued….

Guest Atheist (3)

Well…my time is up, so let us hear now from creation science theist as he debates atheist on what is time and how it does or does not have power to create.

CS-Theist: So please provide evidence that time has existed for zillions of years. Since recorded history only goes back to Eden there is no evidence time has existed beyond that. Documentation is evidence and the evidence we have is provided in the holy Bible, which records the genealogy of Jesus Christ. His ancestry is recorded through son, after son, after son, until it reaches the first man Adam. The Bible says that God personally himself created Adam. Right before that he said and he saw and that was that.

Atheist: We have proof by all we have discovered such as tons of fossils. Transitional fossils that show something turning into something else. There are fossils showing the evolution of goo into beast into ape into grunting half-man-half-animal to thinking man.  How would you explain Neanderthal man? He was an ancient grunting smelly  hunter gatherer. He was ignorant and his only instinct was to survive. His time was spent looking for food besides of course having more Neanderthal people. He is dated back to billions of years.

CS-Theist: My question was about time. Provide evidence that time has existed for billions of years.  Did time exist before the goo appeared? If so where is your evidence? Some evolution scientist who doesn’t believe in God saying it did is not evidence. Time is what we are living in right now. Time began at Genesis one where it says..”In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth….” That prepositional phrase there “in the beginning” is when time began and so did the human race. Heavens and the earth is space and matter. Claiming time existed billions of years is no claim at all since there is no proof. No evidence. No documentation.

Atheist: The universe is old and there is proof for that. I’ll get to that.

CS-Theist: If there was don’t you think there would be a record of it? You know someone would have written it down somewhere. Why is there no record of it? Why is evolution all guesses and theories with no written record? I know the evolutionists have been writing down their theories even as Darwin did for quite some time now. But the fact remains the Bible record came before their so-called records. There are hundreds of manuscripts of the Greek New Testament. There are the Dead Sea Scrolls. But nothing exists in all the records of the world that proves the earth is billions of years old.

Atheist: We have dating methods such as Uranium-thorium-lead dating. We have Potassium-argon dating along with Rubidium-strontium dating and so on. With these incredible methods we c an actually determine how old a fossil is, how old the earth, is how old the universe is.

CS-Theist: Time. My question is about time. If you claim that time has existed for billions perhaps trillions of years than why is there no proof for this? Why is that the records theists have have existed for millennia; in other words the ancients wrote down what they saw and experienced and preserved it for us who would come after. Why didn’t your ancient atheists do the same? Why would they neglect something so important as knowing the earth was billions of years old and writing it down? On a rock, a leaf, anything to tells us. Didn’t they have the intelligence to record any of their discoveries? But here you say you know all this simply because someone said so? I need evidence. I am an empiricist and must have proof. Can you imagine being an attorney and having nothing to present the court except a guess or a theory? You would be a laughing stock and the judge would not take you seriously. He no doubt would see you as mentally challenged.

Atheist: I have proof and will present it during the course of this debate. As for the grunting beasts keeping records. Actually they did not, could not. How could they write anything down when all they knew to do was grunt? They grunted, they multiplied, they ate,they slept they died and their fossils are with us today. Remember they were still walking on all fours. They had not evolved to even walking upright. Before that they were apes and before that they were crawling salivating heinous looking beasts and before that nothing but sticky goo on a distant shore waiting for time to do its creative miracles on them. They needed time and time would not disappoint.

CS-Theist: Do you realize what you’re saying? You’re saying that after billions upon billions of years nothing existed but grunting savage entities whose only instinct was to look for food and multiply? That time as the great creator you claim it to be did nothing for billions of years for these half-man-half animal things but make them grunt? Then die? Tell me how your time god can create a universe that operates according to flawless math principles from the beginning? That makes plants and vegetation, every type of herb and everything else in existence of exquisite beauty and purpose,  yet did nothing for these entities but make them grunt? And crawl on all fours for billions of years. You’re saying that the main thing, the most important entity in existence which is thinking man was nothing but a creeping crawling beast than smelly grunter for billions of years while all else flourished and improved without and around him. Please explain why time would so such a cruel thing to the beginning of humans while turning the earth on its axis in perfect order? Time made everything else perfectly yet left animal man to suffer and die for billions of years leaving nothing but rotting stinky corpses behind them as they exited a world they knew nothing about? Your time-god is cruel beyond description.

Atheist: Not cruel but wise so as to make sure the most important time creation man would someday be able to rule the world as man does now.

CS-Theist: You mean like rule as in  making wars and causing death and destruction in a world that is in desperate and dire straits to this day? One would think that after billions of years time could have done a better job. Please prove that time has existed for literally billions of years. Give me something to read that wasn’t written a hundred years ago. Also how long was a year? Was it twelve months as we know it to be before Genesis one told us? If not what was it and  how did time determine how long a year should be? How did these hideous creatures  live billions of years ago? Was there a moon a sun? Were there stars? How about; how did they measure time? Was there day and was there night? How about rain? Dew? Were there rivers? was there water for them to drink? Where was it?  Where were they? What did they eat? Animals? Fruit? Please tell me what was going on billions of years ago. And prove it. The truth is Time is what is moving forward right now and it exists only from Genesis one to Revelation of Jesus Christ to the chapter where the angel says that time shall be no more. Before that there was God and only he knows anything before Genesis one. Yet here you sit claiming to know what God did not even tell the human race. Incredible!

To be continued……